Latest status in development and future of uniGUI

[Farshad Mohajeri]

Greetings,

 

First of all, I want to thanks all for their support and interest in uniGUI project. I do value your support.

 

It is obvious that project is not going forward as fast as expected. We are already 1-2 months behind the recent roadmap which I published a few months ago.

 

Though slowed down, uniGUI development has never stopped and each new build of 0.90 comes with lots of fixes which aren't included in the changelog. Again, I totally agree that we're not where we expected to be. We are way behind the roadmap. Let me explain reasons behind this delay and possible solutions. There are several issues which must be resolved in order to accelerate development and move forward as fast as possible. I list them below according to priority.

 

1) Sencha and Ext JS licensing

 

Highest priority issue here is Sencha and their licensing scheme. Three years ago I contacted Sencha (extjs.com then) and asked about obtaining an OEM license for uniGUI. At that time they told me that I could distribute uniGUI without an OEM license and all I need to do is to make uniGUI developers aware of commercial terms and explicitly asking them to buy one or more licenses from Sencha. I did the same and uniGUI license explicitly stated that all developers should obtain required number of commercial licenses from Sencha. I hope all of you who develop projects using uniGUI have purchased Ext JS licenses. We, the software developers, should be the last people on this planet who violate copyrights, agree?

 

Now, it seems that Sencha is no longer comfortable with current scheme we use in uniGUI. I mean distributing the betas without an Ext JS OEM license . Recently they started to question licensing model of uniGUI and it seems that they're not agreeing with their own words which they told me 3 years ago. Current Sencha license explicitly states that all Ext JS based development tools should obtain an OEM license.

 

Back in 2008 Ext JS itself started as a small group of developers who were after success. Now Sencha has become a very big company which seeks more and more profit from their products.

Sencha has a history of inconsistency in their licensing models. They can switch to a new license model overnight. For example, Sencha Touch started as a completely free product, recently they show are signs that they will switch to a commercial license in near future.

 

Considering all these, it becomes obvious that I urgently need to clear licensing issue with Sencha Inc. before I can continue any further. I need to know the amount I need to pay to Sencha for an OEM license to cover uniGUI. If you ask about the amount there is no certain price for an OEM license. Sencha determines the price according to each specific project. They my ask anything in range of 25K to 50K or even more. As you can see these amounts aren't that small so it must be determined as soon as possible. I already started talking to Sencha people. They seem to decide to remain partly silent for a while, but their silence doesn't mean that I can continue this way. Consider what will happen if they ask 100K in order to allow me distribute Ext JS with uniGUI? I will push further this week and try to resolve this issue.

 

Another issue with OEM license is that Sencha can impose OEM licenses wherever they see fit. For example if you use uniGUI to develop a app which contains Form Designers and custom scripting Sencha may interpret it as a "Development Tool" which allows redesigning app by end users and ask you to switch to an OEM license which may cost several thousands of dollars. It seems that Sencha only allows you to use standard licenses in Static apps. Any form of dynamic app may fall in a category which may require obtaining an OEM license.

2) Support

 

While I'm happy with more people joining our forums and downloading our betas, the more users join our forums the heavier support requests become. Until recently I was trying to answer each and every post in forums. Then I noticed that it is taking most of my time which could be better channeled to uniGUI development and other tasks. i.e. I came to a point where my effort spent to support exceeded my time dedicated to uniGUI development. It is clear that our current support model is no longer functioning. It is not something that I can resolve by assigning two or more people to manage forums. Many of forum posts are already answered by other forum members who are experienced with uniGUI. I'm thankful to all of them. In long term a new support model is needed. In this new support model we need to have two or more support models. Most probably I will come up with a paid option for support. Those who want official support will need to pay for an annual support agreement. Again, even with paid support we can not give unlimited support. We will introduce something like "support points" which you will spend each time you receive support from us.

 

The most important here is documentation. Lack of proper docs increases support requests even for most basic problems, which could be resolved if required docs were provided. So before I introduce a new support model there is an urgent need to complete documents for framework. Otherwise we won't be able to escape the endless loop were support requests will absorb our time and energy which should be channeled to innovation and development in the first place. That's why I stopped accepting more members to forums. Yesterday I started to allow new member to register but it will be disabled again. I will move from "open beta" to "closed beta" until project is ready to be shared publicly. I'm happy with current group of users and I'll freeze new member registration and continue in closed mode until I feel project is ready to be opened to public once again. I may also ask all members to re-register and sign a NDA before they can access to beta builds.

 

3) Bug reports

 

Another big issue is bug reporting. Bug reports come from many sources. Almost under all forums you can see bug reports. Most of bug reports are not actually bugs. Some of the bugs are reported multiple times. Some of so called bugs are actually misunderstanding of developers about web technologies and lack of info about how web works and how a web application should be designed. Some people report bugs in private messages or private emails which may remain unattended for several days.

 

Another problem with bug reports is the way reports are prepared and posted. Some of them hardly can be called "Bug Reports". Some reports are as simple as "I ran my app but it didn't work in web mode. Please help me!". Which means I should play game of "20 Questions" until I find out what the actual problem is. In future such bug reports will be ignored. I will determine the proper format to report bugs. Most probably providing a "test case" will be mandatory in order to take a bug report into account. Same is true for support requests. In order to receive support one need to explain the problem in detail with enough clues and a test case when needed.

 

4) VCL Mode

 

VCL mode will definitely remain in background as an unsupported feature. I will not remove it from framework but it will not be developed any further. Main problem here is that VCL mode can not be supported. Many developers take VCL mode as a reference for Web mode and report even minor differences as bugs. We can not dedicate support resources to VCL mode. In short VCL mode will continue to exist in its current form but with absolutely zero support. Bugs reported regarding VCL mode will be ignored. I know that I started promoting uniGUI as a library which will enable you to develop apps for both desktop and the web, but my 3 years experience shows that we can't support both platforms and keep same quality for both VCL and Web modes. For those who use uniGUI for both desktop and the web it is a bad news I know, but nothing can be done. As things evolve at some points radical changes will be needed. Again, nothing keeps us from evolving VCL mode and adding new controls but as I said it will be provided as a totally unsupported feature.

 

5) Ext JS

 

Ext JS is a wonderful framework but it brings problems of its own. Main problem here is licensing which I explained above in detail. Another problem is inconsistency among major releases. Sencha seems to like to introduce several breaking changes and they don't care at all. Most of the shift in uniGUI timeline was as a result of breaking changes in Ext JS 4 which took more than one month to spot and fix.

 

To make the long story short, below are steps that we will take from now on:

 

1. Sencha license issue will be resolved
2. We will switch from "Open Beta" to "Closed Beta" mode.
3. Automatic registration for forums will be disabled.
4. Public downloads no longer will be available.
5. Forum members will be asked to sign a NDA in order to be able to have access to new beta releases.
6. Forum content will remain as private and will not be shared publicly.
7. Support model will change.
8. Bug reporting will take a new format.
9. Development will be accelerated.
10. Support requests through private messages and emails will not be accepted.
11. Other things that I will announce in a new thread.

 

Best regards

Farshad Mohajeri

[MariusTurnkey]

Hi Farshad,

 

Your actions seems to be 100% fair.

 

Good luck with bedding down the biggest issue (Sencha Licensing).

 

Regards

Marius

[Radek.Cervinka]

Good luck with Sencha.

 

BTW: Did you thinking of jquery?

 

R.

[Harry Rogers]

Hi Farshad

 

Thanks for the clarifications. I'm sorry to see VCL mode go but I appreciate your reasoning. Lets hope the Sencha issues can be resolved favourably.

 

Best regards

 

Harry

[rvenky20001]

Farshad,

 

This is exactly what all of us wanted to know and you have described your pain areas very nicely. Whatever be the case all of us are with you. The main pain area happens to be ExtJS. All other issues can be resolved among ourselves because it is does not involve a third party. With regards to the ext js, is it not possible that you distribute Unigui without the library and all of us users buy our own license and be responsible for our license ? People who want to test the framework can always download a 1 month trial version from Sencha and check things out. That should avoid you from buying an OEM license only for distributing the framework. This is just a suggestion. Let all other members also come out with their ideas

 

Venkatesh

[estrify]

Have you explore the usage of GNU GPL license, distributing software in open source model?, updated openly once a year and earning incomes through anual subscriptions that allows, in example:

 

• Obtain intermediate versions (that haven't to be public)
  
• Support model with different prices (by email, phone, 7x5, 24x7, etc.)
  
• Priority bug resolution
  
• Access to highly specialized documentation, webinars,
  
• etc.
  

This could allow you to delegate ExtJS licenses to developers. Sure it's not that simple, but it is an idea to explore if Secha's Commercial OEM License is inadequate.

[epos4u]

Hi Farshad,

 

We totally agree and back you all the way.

 

and i like to say, i am very proud to be a member of this group and respect all your hard work

 

Thank You

[andersa@ellenshoej.dk]

Absolutely fair and sensible. The support problems doesn't get easier when you have to use google translate as middle man.

 

The licensing issues with Sensha does make me uncomfortable. I have been a bit torn between this framework and using my known Delphi coding skills and on the other side I feel page oriented frameworks are closer to the spirit of the web.

 

My major issue is that my boss promissed delivery of a web solution for our application by december, so I am feeling my feet getting a bit warm. It is clear that a production version of uniGUI will not be ready by this time, so this will probably be the nail in the coffin for my uniGUI use. Please don't misunderstand this as saying I have any hard feelings about this. I really wish you all the best and a bright future for uniGUI.

 

(Maybe you should change the name, with no more VCL support? Haha!)

[Anachronox]

Dear Farshad and all community members.

 

As from my point of view, we should act as "one big lobby party" in every licensing issues. Many of us, like me, bought full Sencha license. If Sencha Inc. will terrorize you and us with new/updated/changed/promised/canceled license model, we should act as one man. There was no other reason for us to buy ExtJS & Sencha Touch license than for uniGUI. Sencha Inc. is going to be like Embarcadero - growing from technology company to just money-eating company, and this we can't suffer.

 

Negotiations should be conducted not only by your side, but from our side too, to show Sencha Inc. that we are already paying for their products and they should take care of us with respect like we are one big corporate customer (in terms of licenses sold).

 

It sounds as nonsense to me, that you should buy OEM license ("for us") if we have bought full commercial licenses from Sencha by ourselves.

[paulogeovane]

Hi Farshad,

 

We are with you I am very proud to be a member of this group work is fantastic'm hoping it will be resolved as soon as possible the problem of licensing ExtJS.

[markw]

Farshad,

 

I also agree - your thoughts are very fair and we are all here to support you. I am sure a group of us would be happy to take on some of the support and even development of code or documentation.

 

Thanks for the the update

 

Mark

[Mortymer]

Dear Farshad,

 

I do it differently.

If you do not buy OEM license Sencha, but I would open source the UniGUI. The Forum will be paid.

- The open-source project

- Who are developing a commercial product it buys the ExtJS (I bought it)

- You will have your money, because our interest to work and I do not have time to develop it but would like to pay for the support

I hope it does not hurt but it unnecessary to deal with the Sencha. Extremely difficult to pay the OEM charge.

 

"May the Force be with you"

[rasaliad]

Hi Farshad,

 

When i read your post about Sencha OEM licences problem, i thought the same that Venkatesh wrote, do not distribute the Ext jS with UniGui, and we all buy the Ext Js from sencha. About the support i'm ready to pay for it, although I almost do not ask in the forum, because i try to solve for my self or searching the forum, i want to pay to feel save if i need a support, and now i'm developing two web project and i wan to do it with Unigui. Have you think about JQuery?.

 

Regards

 

Rafael Liriano

(rasaliad)

[belo]

Hi Farshad!

 

Thanks for the clarification. Difficulties exist, but we have to move on. Count me.

 

"In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity." Albert Eistein

 

Best regards

 

Eduardo Belo

[Arvin Feng]

Farshad,

 

We will support you forever, and whatever be the case all of us are with you.

[richard_wu]

I will support you

[lema]

I think that the biggest problem for now is Sencha and Ext JS licensing scheme.

Do your best deal , solve any conflicts and please inform us about the results.

 

We also need you to tell us some prices (estimated).

Many of us depend our projects on the uniGui framework and we also talk with customers.

We all work in an economically depressed market which highest priority is cost and

it's really difficult to compute the budget without all variables.

 

Waiting for the news.

[Semper]

Thanks for the clarifications, but hard to hear the latest news.

The decision not to support VCL very bad for me

Also I planned commercial development with uniGUI for the next year. Without knowledge of the price (even estimated) calculate the budget is impossible.

 

It is also unclear whether it is possible to use uniGUI in GPL projects.

[maher]

Dear Members,

 

In our small company, like very much the unigui project.

And we ready to support the project financially,

 

So I suggest, if you believe in UNIGUI project please buy a pre- license.

 

Each member if he could, to pay a certain amount for a future UNIGUI license.

 

"Sorry about bad English"

 

Thank You

Maher Ahmad

[rvenky20001]

Farshad,

 

Just wanted to know if you got anything in writing from Sencha when they told you that you could distribute Extjs without a OEM licence ? One more suggestion that I have. Let us make a list of all UniGui users who have bought or are willing to buy a Sencha license and provide you with their license details. Put your case forward to Sencha with this List. That way you can convince Sencha more easily that they are not losing but gaining on account of UniGui. I have not yet bought a license but I can buy it right away if all of us take this route.

 

Venkatesh

[passion1]

Just wanted to know if you got anything in writing from Sencha when they told you that you could distribute Extjs without a OEM licence ? One more suggestion that I have. Let us make a list of all UniGui users who have bought or are willing to buy a Sencha license and provide you with their license details. Put your case forward to Sencha with this List. That way you can convince Sencha more easily that they are not losing but gaining on account of UniGui.

I agree.

I bought the $329 Sencha license and I am sure that many more of us have already done that.

[cristianotestai]

Hi,

 

First i am happy to receive your post Farshad, because all these issues you put it,evidence that the vision of the project is mature and with great perspectives.

The main issue in my view is also on the Sencha format licensing, because as has been said here is something external that needs to be very carefully evaluated.

I can say that you can count on me and with most of the forum here who are already using UniGui in the final stages and others already in production.

 

We will be here to support you in all situations.

 

Thanks Farshad!

 

Cristiano Testai

Brazil

[dieger]

Hi,

 

First i am happy to receive your post Farshad, because all these issues you put it,evidence that the vision of the project is mature and with great perspectives.

The main issue in my view is also on the Sencha format licensing, because as has been said here is something external that needs to be very carefully evaluated.

I can say that you can count on me and with most of the forum here who are already using UniGui in the final stages and others already in production.

 

We will be here to support you in all situations.

 

Thanks Farshad!

 

Cristiano Testai

Brazil

 

+1

[estrify]

Hi,

 

First i am happy to receive your post Farshad, because all these issues you put it,evidence that the vision of the project is mature and with great perspectives.

The main issue in my view is also on the Sencha format licensing, because as has been said here is something external that needs to be very carefully evaluated.

I can say that you can count on me and with most of the forum here who are already using UniGui in the final stages and others already in production.

 

We will be here to support you in all situations.

 

Thanks Farshad!

 

Cristiano Testai

Brazil

+1 too

[ldb68]

The only problem is that Sencha does not seem a serious company.

Be able to replace it with an open source library would be best although I fear that the time would be long. However ExtJs the mobile side is not really the best.