unigui mod Bare bones uniGUI - How hard is it ?

[Fred Montier]

Hi there my friends...

Since now we have the source to the core. How hard is that to remove all Ext.JS references and leave just session management and server features ? No comps, no ext.js dependency, no nothing. How far session management is linked to Ext.JS ? I'm ready to a deep dive on that. But not to "redo" uniGUI.

Load an Index.html and ready do play as any HTTP server. 

Thanks for any input.

[Norm]

Wow, imagine the freedom!

Being able to use tools like Vue.js, Typescript, PWA. The sky would be the limit.

I agree, Ext.js has been good to us. But it would be nice to move on.

I am ready to commit for life and pay my subs for years in advance.

[Farshad Mohajeri]

20 hours ago, Fred Montier said:

Hi there my friends...

Since now we have the source to the core. How hard is that to remove all Ext.JS references and leave just session management and server features ? No comps, no ext.js dependency, no nothing. How far session management is linked to Ext.JS ? I'm ready to a deep dive on that. But not to "redo" uniGUI.

Load an Index.html and ready do play as any HTTP server. 

Thanks for any input.

Hi Fred,

For this you don't need uniGUI. Just use Indy components. They can serve HTML pages and perform a basic session management.

That said, I recommend you to review our EULA to make sure your derivative work won't conflict with it.

[Fred Montier]

Quote

For this you don't need uniGUI. Just use Indy components. They can serve HTML pages and perform a basic session management

Ok, but you got me wrong. I'm noway giving up uniGUI or creating a competitor scenario here . No  time for this.  And there are lots of codes , session management, function, ajax handling  and other stuff running ok in uniGUI. I just want to get ready of ext.js dependency. There is a lot of code that I can't run/ can't debug, because I have to waste time learning Sencha Ext.js, once it is already in a dead end.  Just take a look at the numbers and market's share.

It has been three years since they (Idera)  bought it (Sencha) and I see no support for uniGUI and complete integration from both products to/at Embarcedero / Idera. That should be easy decision.  They got the oven, the pan and the eggs. What more they need ? Learn how to break the freaking eggs ?

Even their freaking forum has no updates and no real roadmap (https://blogs.embarcadero.com/?s=roadmap) or maybe they got lost in their road in 2020. THIS IS 2023, already !! No long term updates ! We're already in webassembly world !

We are all, in fact, flying blind. That is the sensation all user got. And get this, I know a lot of uniGUI users, I myself promote uniGUI in a lot of ways but I got "tons" of people giving up down here. And it's not your fault at all. Opening uniGUI or freeing from ext.js would give flexibility to integrate to anything. And I'm sure that this is a task you guys could do easily.

I was thinking about a strip down servermodule/mainmodule components in the uniGUI framework done by you (uniGUI Team).  And it is not an easy task doing this for me or anyone that is not in the development inner circle and knows the other aspects of your whole uniGUI projects.

I, in fact, have  done several indy / http server for a lot of jobs for collecting statistic/ service integration, tracking transparent gif/Inject JS in my old days of e-mail marketing pro. 

See, unigui in my view, is way better than Intraweb (long time user here) in many aspects, but lacks the flexibility to heavy users as TMS WebCode does ( that lacks componentes and depends on FNC ). It does a perfect job for novice users migrating their project. But we reach a limit very soon  to those more hardcore.

In the other hand , TMS webcode is in no way a solution to legated projects and Delphi/pascal only programmer that are just too old to engage in HTML, JS and CSS basic's knowledge. It's almost impossible to convince new people to work with Delphi/Pascal and worst to make on top of all that , use uniGUI.

Linux support, Server Farm Support or EVEN HYPERSERVER (Yes, I SAID IT !) Is a BIG, but BIG waste of time. Anyone who needs a server farm using Delphi/uniGUI is creating a project from the ground up and will have problems growing. Certainly will migrate to more wided adopted solutions and programming languages.

This would simply cover both ends.  But...  Boss and Horse are here. And You guys could enroll in a lot of these views.

Just my two cents.

[Fred Montier]

The hardest "risky" part you have done: open the core  code. 

But I have the bad feeling that even RAD STUDIO days are numbered. See theirs coderage last week. Two birds and a squirel.

[Fred Montier]

Another example, I spent days trying to make adjustments and get the right code to transfer data from midia devices (sound , image files, docs etc) and get in the uniURLFRAME, HTMLFrame and be properly manipulated and saved at server side. This code was already DONE and working in Javascript. No need to redo in pascal. I made a recent project to  get PDF Annotation lib to work that toke me a whole month to find the solution and a tried all JS Lib and ajax possibilities. 

Some times for no (documented) reasons , you have to make references to references to the Ajax code be triggered in the unigui app. It seem to be no rule. Mostly when you integrate to 3rd party services or libs.  I got a tip from a user having problems with Google Maps in the forum that solved my problem with webhook to Paypal Component. But it just makes no sense. Just try and error. And only worked in this particular case. Similar situation, like to manipulate PDF Annotations Lib, it did not worked. Even the lib being a mozilla standard. I can't get to work just because is lost in layers of Delphi, pascal, unigui and above all , ext.js framework ! Debug, a webapp is like CSI by photos of a huge car crash.

And even with all that, I cant get unigui app to read the PDF JS lib due to some DOM mess up with the way its running. I just cannot debug it !.  This is a problem that a lot of people had here and they simply gave up. If the code as simplified, in the client side, would be a lot easy to debug. We could simple get any Admin Template and just connect to DBs and get it running in 10 minutes. And ANY ADMIN template is worthless without db connection. "Pretty gal, but can't do the dishes", as they say.

Imagine a bucket of ready-to-go examples that can be used. And Sencha Ex.JS is doing this creating some form of integration to other Framework.

So, in my view, go slim or else...

Edited December 26, 2022 by Fred Montier
typos and logic

[Fred Montier]

Quote

I'm ready to a deep dive on that. But not to "redo" uniGUI.

As I said... "deep dive" meaning bring a lot of stuff that I got in templates, bootstrap examples, JQuery, JS Libs, React, Angular, Tons of PHP projects ... more than 15 years of web code to a almost perfect framework to who works with Delphi and don't want to lose all their background.

Think about that. While I doubt that there is  more than a dozen users working with serious server farms projects in the whole world using Delphi/uniGUI.

This is real world. Take this words as some body thatalmost every day is talking about uniGUI and web web option to Delphi to a lot of user. Because Embarcadero Brasil is not doing this for sure. Not even a MVP we got on this subjects here.

So, end of topic.

[Norm]

9 hours ago, Farshad Mohajeri said:

Hi Fred,

For this you don't need uniGUI. Just use Indy components. They can serve HTML pages and perform a basic session management.

That said, I recommend you to review our EULA to make sure your derivative work won't conflict with it.

In our case, and I am sure it applies to many Delphi developers, we have several mature, stable business applications (MRP & financials) that we would like to modernize and move to the web. We am prepared to redo all the front-end but no way do we want to re-write the tons of business logic code. I enthusiastically took to unGUI because it seemed to be the ideal solution. But I quickly got frustrated with ExtJS and we now do all our screens using HTML/JS/CSS based tools. The resulting application is fully responsive and works on all devices. The beauty of the uniGui solution is that we are able to phase in web-based modules without touching the existing systems, e.g. the manager can use his/her phone or tablet from anywhere to review outstanding bills and approve them for payment and the rest happens the traditional way.

Unfortunately in doing all this we have to be dealing with a lot of ExtJS quirks.

So yes, uniGUI without ExtJS would be a very attractive proposition for us.

[Fred Montier]

Look... Sencha Ext.JS is doing this already making migration tools, brigdes and "what nots" to all  big frameworks. See in their own website.

But for them, this is to late ! We´re the crisp of leaving behind all this JavaScript's framework BS  fad that all years comes again. "What is the best framework to 2023" ? What the heck !  You can count by the hundred videos like that in youtube. All frameworks are the best and etc etc.

Tied to a unique framework that don't even appears between top 10's in the last 5 years. Is really a drag.

For the record. I don't know any delphi developer below 40. And no Delphi/uniGUI programmer with a big old project migrating to the web. That is the only scenario I can see.

Try to sell/explain a Server Farm in uniGUI to a 40's guys with a basic POS system using Interbase 2.5 !

I said Interbase/FB 2.5 !

The new guys in 20 in some things say:"inter who" ? "Fire what ?"

[markokas]

I hope that Farshad will comment Fred's statements.  

ExtJS is really not looks promising for future. It looks that everything what Emb./idera tuch dies very quickly.

For us as developers is the most important long term view in crazy world of best frameworks. 

Br, Marko

 

 

[bahry]

I have used the Free PivotGrid from DevExtreme (FreeEdition) https://github.com/DevExpress/devextreme 

in UniGui/RADCore "Testing Project" and it's amazing, So I think we can use any third party JS in our UniGui project without any problems

 

 

 

[Luciano França]

I don't think Idera killed sencha
Look
https://www.sencha.com/blog/ext-js-7-6-has-arrived/

[Fred Montier]

14 hours ago, luapfr said:

I don't think Idera killed sencha

Happy new year !

I'm not saying that. Read again. I'm saying is that "you" got two products that could have an amazing sinergy. And for this time, they've (IDERA) made no commitments to uniGUI  + Sencha/Ext,JS. It makes me wonder what the heck they are thinking. We have ahead a very big learning curve to Sencha Ex.JS and a bigger one to a become a Pascal/Delphi programmer. Pick one. People don't have time for two !

Meanwhile, Sencha Ext. JS is not even appearing in the charts.  If you don't have users, newbies, supporting community, it's the end. 

uniGUI make its own way, keeps Ext.JS support but gives us alternatives to embrace new frameworks or they both go down with the ship.

That is point here. Or any one got a better idea ?


 

[Luciano França]

I'll just tell you one thing I've been following Unigui for some time and two days ago I bought my professional license and I see that Unigui from the little I know is something fantastic, and I congratulate the FMSoft team.

And I don't think that "FMSoft" should create something separate from Sencha.Ext because the idea was to create something as close as possible to VCL and they managed to do it with mastery, I see that today Unigui is only so dear and loved by the community for being using Sencha.Ext in a rooted way, and we only have to thank both FMSoft and IDERA who caught a sinking boat (Delphi Rad Studio) and managed to give a good direction and rudder to the Same

Year year more thanks and less complaints.
 

[asapltda]

I have used the Free PivotGrid from DevExtreme (FreeEdition) https://github.com/DevExpress/devextreme 

in UniGui/RADCore "Testing Project" and it's amazing, So I think we can use any third party JS in our UniGui project without any problems

 

Good afternoon, can you share as you did ? tanks

[Fred Montier]

4 hours ago, luapfr said:

thank both FMSoft and IDERA who caught a sinking boat (Delphi Rad Studio) and managed to give a good direction and rudder to the Same

OK than... really tired of this nonsense. 

1 hour ago, asapltda said:

So I think we can use any third party JS in our UniGui project without any problems

Lol... just try harder. Not even close !
Either something is missing in uniGUI for needing  RadCore or uniGUI programmer really don't want to learn HTML/CSS/JS. Well, maybe I'm complete moron, more likely.

[Fred Montier]

Done... not watching this thread anymore.
Don't waste your time.

[lbuelvas]

Hi Fred, I fully share your views. In my case, I found in uniGui the solution to move my applications to the web with minimal effort, I haven't had time to learn HTML, CSS or JavaScript. It kept about 90% of the code of my VCL applications, the changes are due to web development peculiarities, it only used a few lines of JavaScript. My apps are a web version of what they were in desktop mode.

But Ext.JS worries me because few companies can adopt it due to its excessively aggressive pricing policy that requires buying a minimum of 5 licenses, which is unattainable for a freelance developer. In the medium/long term I think that Ext.js will cease to be an option, which will affect uniGui.

The great strength of Ext.JS are the grids.

For my work, uniGui would be perfect if it did the following: it worked with Lazarus, it compiled to Linux, it allowed to use another framework like React / Vue,JS, it allowed to use other grids and it kept the other characteristics of uniGUI but without Ext.JS

Only the FMSoft team will be able to tell us how they see the future of uniGui but at this moment continuing with Ext.JS I see it more as a threat than as a strength.

[Fred Montier]

On 1/13/2023 at 10:23 PM, lbuelvas said:

But Ext.JS worries me because few companies can adopt it due to its excessively aggressive pricing policy that requires buying a minimum of 5 licenses, which is unattainable for a freelance developer. In the medium/long term I think that Ext.js will cease to be an option, which will affect uniGui.

120% right ! And they are already changing their focus ( vue, react etc...).

 

On 1/13/2023 at 10:23 PM, lbuelvas said:

The great strength of Ext.JS are the grids.

They started with "the" grid and documentation in early 00-teens. But today is not the issue anymore. With "tens" JS free framework to choose from and four being sponsored by big FANGS for free , who's gonna win ?

Again, uniGUI is, by far,the best and only way to Delphi Programmer do Web evolution. Try DServer, try Intraweb... Jesus.

I'm no way criticizing  uniGUI team but IDERA/Embarcadero ! Make/Offer a deal to Farshad (Don't know if he wants or needs). But Delphi, is without a really way out from VCL/FMX  just for the freaking web.

 

[asapltda]

On 12/28/2022 at 7:25 AM, bahry said:

He usado Free PivotGrid de DevExtreme (FreeEdition) https://github.com/DevExpress/devextreme 

en UniGui/RADCore "Testing Project" y es increíble, así que creo que podemos usar cualquier JS de terceros en nuestro proyecto UniGui sin ningún problema

 

 

 

good morning Mr. X, could you explain how to achieve integration, provide an example or in some case extramemo give classes on how to do it Thank you

 

[rkreutz]

• cutting out extjs from unigui is impossible
  • basically unigui is 'just' a wrapper for sencha
  • most probably because sencha is the most similiar to vcl from what is available currently)
• i'm reading again and again about unigui being a problem regarding pwa and responsive design
  • this is in fact utterly false
  • the app i'm developing is using the desktop-line of controls, because the mobile one is lackluster
  • except for the mainform, everything is "alignment client" and "layout auto"
    • basically i do not use the layouting from sencha nor the server alignment for desktop
    • all new forms are parented into the mainform
  • everything in my app is using css flex for layouting
  • i do NOT have any changes done to unigui (currently requesting a change for some code, so lookup-combobox i developed will work)
  • my app is pwa (but without an offline mode, which is basically possible even with unigui, but heavy work/code needed)
  • for that i developed a big css file and using a self-written wizard to apply css classes to the layout.cls property
    • its impossible to design a layout that is equally 'good' on a portrait 400*1000 and a landscape 1000*800 and a Desktop monitor 2500*1600
    • but every single Module/Form does actually responsively scale in my App
• Its just that someone has to invest quite abit of work to get things done
  • but this is true for every framework
  • unigui has the beauty, that someone is able to use his existing bussiness logic in delphi code (which is huge advantage)
• sure, there is alot to be wanted left from unigui, lots of just very basic implementations
  • BUT, the longer i develop with it and the more i delve into it and extjs, the more i see the work that was done
  • making something better is a very very big task, i heavily doubt that its done in near future by anyone

[Mohammed Nasman]

On 6/22/2023 at 2:54 PM, rkreutz said:

• cutting out extjs from unigui is impossible
  • most probably because sencha is the most similiar to vcl from what is available currently)

I think that decision made to use Ext.JS was before 10 or 13 years ago, and as you said it was the most similar JS framework to VCL. and unigui was trying to develop desktop & web application with same code (Thank to you guys to stopped that).

But for last years, the web has changed a lot, and we still can't get fully responsive layout natively from unigui.

I think they should think about future of Unigui as stand alone product without relying on commercial JS library, in past years, there are a lot of JS framework that bring the powerful to web from front size part.