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Disappointed with Unigui? There are alternatives coming!


d.bernaert

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Hi everyone,

I've been using Unigui now for several years and committed my complete business on it.

I must say that the latest time I'm quite disappointed with the way it is going with Unigui.

If I look at the releases of Unigui, I can only see the following:

  • releases come every 3-4 weeks
  • releases contain 2-3 relevant bugfixes and a new sample and many theme changes which I don't care about
  • Issues that need to be addressed according to me (essantial things that don't work, for instance, dblookupcombox) are in the buglist for over a year, still not addressed
  • ...

I can only say that other companies have another vision...

I've attended a conference yesterday and I've seen a preview of TMS Web Core and what they are working on.

Here's a brief description:

  1. No more need for a Delphi environment (cost saving of 1.500 euro a year)
  2. IDE integration created by the main developer of Embadero PHP
  3. Full integration with Visual studio code (free)
  4. IDE is free and runs on Windows, mac and even in the cloud without installing anything
  5. Live rendering of components in the visual designer like at runtime (web components)
  6. Live data from rest services at design time!
  7. No deployment costs
  8. No server sessions (scalability)
  9. Class helpers to integrate third party components (very easy)!
  10. High DPI aware
  11. Need to say more? I don't think so...
  12. They have more to come, including full stack from server to client separate from Delphi IDE an cross-platform

This is coming all from TMS software next year (first beta release target is end of the year)

A license of TMS software costs around 500$.. you save Delphi license....

Where is Unigui? Farshad, are you still around? Makes me think, really...

I don't care about Linux support within Delphi, this runs everywhere...

Want to see something, this is run on a mac:

 

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That doesnt impress me. Have u ever tried to make a database event driven website with TMS? Forget it. Data access will require another strange TMS tools and strange TMS REST services.

With unigui it just works. I dont have to implement a rest layer and can use standard FireDac & standard MS SQLServer. A powerful combination.

Dont get me wrong. TMS is worth to keep it in mind. But its much too early to consider it as a serious alternative.

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I am working in Msoft LTD a software company, we provide professional solution to our clients ( enterprise and soho) in many fields: Cellular, AI, IT.... We use Unigui for our projecrs.

Unigui is stable and just work out of the box and the big advantage is the Extjs js client-side. We don't search for other solutions because all we want can be found in unigui, it is true that some times we use js code to achieve somethings that doesn't included with Unigui but what's the problem doing it in client side in that way you become familiar with Extjs.

We have developed more than 30 web apps and some of them are used by clients world wide.

Unigui support (Mr. Farshad) is always a helping one and caring about his customers. 

Before Unigui we used Intraweb and TMS components for Intraweb and the result was not impressed in every browser a different result.

 

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Hi everyone,

This post has two parts:

  1. A complaint about the development speed of uniGUI (and about the transparency about its progress)
  2. Alternative solutions like TMS Web Core

Your complaint is valid because the progress in uniGUI development slowed down this year (good reasons or bad reasons, it doesn't matter). Also, the Roadmap 2019 was very ambitious and it was affected by the slower speed. You are right on this point.

The second point is not right for most of the developers using uniGUI. Let me explain why (before I get lynched without jury or trial).

The main goal of uniGUI is to bring the power of a Delphi desktop application to the web and doing so while preserving what makes Delphi one of the best RAD tools ever created.

Some people could be smiling now but let me mention a few things we take for granted in Delphi:

  • Visual form designer with property editors and under-the-hook links to data modules containing datasets, action lists, and all kinds of events (no need for pesky MVC,/MVVC, or any other over-complicated and over-engineered tools except pure and clean Delphi).
  • Data grids that get linked at design time and just work.
  • Clear separation of the user interface and the business logic using forms and data modules.

Any common application requires a database and if you need a scalable application, you will need a good middle tier for connecting to it and managing the connections from multiple clients. This scenario was always a problem for client/server applications written in Delphi because each one of them used a data module for its connection, but so did every other client. Products like RemObjects DataAbstract were created for solving this issue. With uniGUI, you get your server which holds that data module and DataAbstract becomes a luxury you don't really need. As soon as HyperServer runs as a Server Farm, you will be able to handle as many clients as your server infrastructure can handle.

On the other hand, you can have all your code in JavaScript and that doesn't mean that your application can scale, it is just that you will need to create your own server and manage your connections.

I could expand my answer, but it should be enough.

My last comment is that TMS Web Core is not the only "alternative". Even the old IntraWeb is trying to create a "revolution" by over-promising, under-delivering, and trying to reinvent the wheel. All these products are years behind what uniGUI currently offers.

We want more, we want everything! But just try any of the alternatives and you will see the difference.

As a parting gift.

Last year I was requested to develop a relatively simple application but using IntraWeb plus CGDevTools.

After a few days, I finally discovered that they didn't have modal forms and the tricky solution they offered only worked for simple pop up messages.

It took me a couple of weeks to create a generic solution that worked "almost" like a modal form. Another week to discover that none of the dataset events were really supported by their grids and that my assumptions were wrong about being capable of working Delphi-style. In the end, I learned a lot of idiosyncrasies about the product, deliver my project, and became convinced that IW + CGDevTools (including jQuery) was a waste of time.

Anyone is welcomed to repeat the experience...

Sorry for the rant.

David Izada Rodriguez

(old, very old Delphi developer)

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7 minutes ago, davidizadar said:

Hi everyone,

This post has two parts:

  1. A complaint about the development speed of uniGUI (and about the transparency about its progress)
  2. Alternative solutions like TMS Web Core

Your complaint is valid because the progress in uniGUI development slowed down this year (good reasons or bad reasons, it doesn't matter). Also, the Roadmap 2019 was very ambitious and it was affected by the slower speed. You are right on this point.

The second point is not right for most of the developers using uniGUI. Let me explain why (before I get lynched without jury or trial).

The main goal of uniGUI is to bring the power of a Delphi desktop application to the web and doing so while preserving what makes Delphi one of the best RAD tools ever created.

Some people could be smiling now but let me mention a few things we take for granted in Delphi:

  • Visual form designer with property editors and under-the-hook links to data modules containing datasets, action lists, and all kinds of events (no need for pesky MVC,/MVVC, or any other over-complicated and over-engineered tools except pure and clean Delphi).
  • Data grids that get linked at design time and just work.
  • Clear separation of the user interface and the business logic using forms and data modules.

Any common application requires a database and if you need a scalable application, you will need a good middle tier for connecting to it and managing the connections from multiple clients. This scenario was always a problem for client/server applications written in Delphi because each one of them used a data module for its connection, but so did every other client. Products like RemObjects DataAbstract were created for solving this issue. With uniGUI, you get your server which holds that data module and DataAbstract becomes a luxury you don't really need. As soon as HyperServer runs as a Server Farm, you will be able to handle as many clients as your server infrastructure can handle.

On the other hand, you can have all your code in JavaScript and that doesn't mean that your application can scale, it is just that you will need to create your own server and manage your connections.

I could expand my answer, but it should be enough.

My last comment is that TMS Web Core is not the only "alternative". Even the old IntraWeb is trying to create a "revolution" by over-promising, under-delivering, and trying to reinvent the wheel. All these products are years behind what uniGUI currently offers.

We want more, we want everything! But just try any of the alternatives and you will see the difference.

As a parting gift.

Last year I was requested to develop a relatively simple application but using IntraWeb plus CGDevTools.

After a few days, I finally discovered that they didn't have modal forms and the tricky solution they offered only worked for simple pop up messages.

It took me a couple of weeks to create a generic solution that worked "almost" like a modal form. Another week to discover that none of the dataset events were really supported by their grids and that my assumptions were wrong about being capable of working Delphi-style. In the end, I learned a lot of idiosyncrasies about the product, deliver my project, and became convinced that IW + CGDevTools (including jQuery) was a waste of time.

Anyone is welcomed to repeat the experience...

Sorry for the rant.

David Izada Rodriguez

(old, very old Delphi developer)

very well put together :)

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Hi d.bernaert, I find your point very valid and very useful too, to get a sense of what is happening.

But as the other colleagues put it here, when you are going to use TMS not everything is flowers.

With uniGui, you can do wonders, I'm extremely happy with uniGUI, I can do everything with it, and what doesn't exist in uniGui I create, we recently received a big investiment in our company, and all thanks to uniGui.

Now one thing that I find very useful on your part, there are some super important things to develop in uniGui that should be better followed, I believe Farshad must be designing something.

Farshad you have done an amazing job so far, keep it up, focus on critical uniGui things, we need you.

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Hi

I'm new to UniGui, I haven't even completed my first project yet, but I would like to express my opinion:

All the work being done to advance the Delphi Web application environment is extremely important to the entire developer community.

Thus, the work of TMS should be viewed with respect as it is truly promising. However, even more is what UniGui has been doing through Web development and the very impressive advances in ExtJS 6 versions.

The UniGui Team is to be congratulated, as we say here.

I would also like improvements, especially with regard to performance and large and complex projects, to be faster.

But that's not easy with a small team. It is a serious and hard mission.

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Hi

Dominique certainly has a good point and describes what is currently happening and what
he, -and I certainly think others here on the forum, experience.

New functionalities is nice, but more important is a stable platform and where bug fixing 
should receive attention. Several signals have already been issued on the forum about the 
long stay-out of fixes, up-to-date documentation and a roadmap, - the last update is from 
February I think.

In any case, I don't know what Farshad's ambition is with uniGui because he responds
fairly rarely to this type of message. A shame because it is a signal that is being delivered
by its users of the product and I think you should do something with it.

I am uniGui user from the first hour and I still think it is a very nice product and a great 
achievement that Farshad has achieved, we all agree with that. We have all developed 
one or more applications in uniGui and maybe even sold them. That would not have been 
possible without uniGui. But it does not stop there and the developments in the market,
the demand of the users continues. Today's applications must be multi-device if you
like it or not. The application must have the same look and feel on both mobile and
desktop / tablet ... responsive

But just like Dominique I am increasingly worried about the future / continuity of 
uniGui .. why ... because there is insufficient communication, bug fixing is too slow, 
you have to use work-arounds to realize things that you do not like structural solution. 
Finally my biggest concern is that I think Farshad is still the only developer. 
Points that have already been mentioned in previous post but have not provided clarity.

A framework such as uniGui has a lot of potential, but then more development capacity 
must become available, bug fixing must go faster and communication must be improved.

It is not about which framework is better, that everyone must determine for themselves 
and another cannot do for you. Also not with examples of what the one framework can 
or cannot do. Every framework has its own specific characteristics and use, and also 
everyone uses it in its own way and for its own application.

What you do see is that there are new frameworks that will certainly develop faster
and meet the current needs of our customers, yes they are still in their infancy, 
but are quickly moving to a higher level with a growing number of users.

Regards Peter

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I have been working with Farshad from time to time since 2011 because of some huge projects I migrated from the Windows desktop to the Web.

More than that, use frequently brainstorm about the product and the best way to serve its users.

Farshad is not the only developer working on uniGUI, but he is the creator and architect of the product and takes care of the core development. Other developers build on top of the core framework fantastic components like the Google Maps integration.

Nevertheless, it is true that Farshad has been taking too long for fixing some issues (some of them, not because of their complexity). This year he faced a few personal hurdles which made him slow down and the backlog kept growing. It didn't help that the 2019 RoadMap was very ambitious.

The truth is, he is trying to close the year with some important features and fixes to take advantage of the holidays for pausing and recovering. The next year will be challenging,

Until now, uniGUI was developed as the foundation for creating web applications, Delphi-style, and not as s vertical solution for some specific kind of application. After working with uniGUI in several projects, I arrived at the conclusion that uniGUI could include a few additional features targeting enterprise applications. For example:

  • Role-Based Access Control - Almost every medium or large application requires fine-grained access control at several levels (database, services, user interface). The difficulty here is to cope with different databases without depending on an external ORM and offer a simple user interface that could be customized by the user.
  • Run-Time Editor - Some enterprise applications need to be flexible enough to add more information than initially required, and to be able to redesign the user interface according to the user roles or personal preferences. It is something that was already done several times, but it should be flexible enough so that the user could select where to store the modified DFMs.

This kind of development could be done by everyone, not just by Farshad. I'm personally interested in creating a few of them, but other developers could do the same.

I hope that other members of the forum will help to improve uniGUI by making suggestions, requesting fixes or improvements, or just sharing scenarios where uniGUI didn't provide all the tools required for creating and delivering a solution.

I really need to know what are the pending issues with the most negative impact on your current development. As someone mentioned before, having new features is important, but any blocking issue should have a higher priority.

Regards,

David Izada Rodriguez

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Hi David,

I would like to react to my initial post and clarify some things.

I've been here from the start, it is my opinion that Unigui is a great platform. A prove of this is that all of my business is currently running on this platform.

I also suggested to create wrappers around the free Synfusion library so that the possibilies of Unigui increase very fast (over 100 controls).

I also invested thousands to get wrappers created for things I needed in my platforms (Google Drive, Dropbox, drag-and drop file upload, ...)

My post is only one of concern, nothing more, it's no advertising for other tools, but, as a business owner I do look in the market.

I have great respect for Farshad, but business is business, my company needs to keep running and I'm worried, sorry.

  • fixes that are essential are not fixed, I don't like it that I have to create patches and bother my customers with strange constructions for essential things that have been reported over a year
  • it is my opinion that priority has to go to fixing existing bugs rather than creating new platforms, ... I know some people want Linux support, but do they want Linux support with bugs?
  • And yes, I'm concerned about the fact that Farshad is the only core developer. What if something happens with him? I make a living on this library.

So again, all respect for Farshad and the product, it's great, but changes come slowly and to me it seems the focus is wrong.

Regards,

Dominique

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@Bernaert don't worry, be happy. Think positif. 

° Unigui is the Best framework ever done for the delphi developers. Its rock architecture and simplicity has already proven. 

I understand your point of view but i could'nt agree with  it. You said about TMS Web Core " I've seen a preview of TMS Web Core and what they are working on."

OK, me to i can go to TMS Forum and say "Oh... TMS Web users, have you seen what unigui projet will release soon, from their roadmap 2019 !" 

I am sur, that this question will leave thoughtful a lot of  TMS Web developers. 

Cheers

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On 11/23/2019 at 12:46 AM, d.bernaert said:

Hi everyone,

I've been using Unigui now for several years and committed my complete business on it.

I must say that the latest time I'm quite disappointed with the way it is going with Unigui.

If I look at the releases of Unigui, I can only see the following:

  • releases come every 3-4 weeks
  • releases contain 2-3 relevant bugfixes and a new sample and many theme changes which I don't care about
  • Issues that need to be addressed according to me (essantial things that don't work, for instance, dblookupcombox) are in the buglist for over a year, still not addressed
  • ...

Hi Dominique,

Thank you for your feedback. I value your input here and I will try to address your concerns below.

I understand your disappointment regarding our current development speed and release times. As I've always said, the development speed for uniGUI has never been constant. It can be quite fast at times or slow at other times. However, it is obvious that we have failed to keep up with the release dates announced in the latest roadmap. Again, roadmaps are not contracts. They're announced to let people know what is about to come in near future. There can be deviations from the roadmaps. We've succeeded to complete up to 80% of items in the 2019 roadmap. Without doubt the remaining 20% are very important items, including infinite grids, Linux and responsiveness support.

The "light releases" that you have mentioned above are being released for past two months, that is correct. However, it is not true for the whole 2019. Year 2019 as a whole, is/was a very productive year for uniGUI. In this year many bugs have been fixed and many new features have been added.

Please don't be disappointed simply because for our bad performance which can be counted only for past couple of months. A release interval of every three weeks seems to be OK from my point of view as long as each release addresses enough issues.

That said, this situation will not stay the same. We are committed to the 2019 roadmap. All of the announced features in the roadmap will be implemented unless we state otherwise or revise the roadmap. We don't have any intention to revise the current roadmap. That said, obviously the dates in the roadmap need to be revised and shifted for a few months.

 

Quote

I can only say that other companies have another vision...

I've attended a conference yesterday and I've seen a preview of TMS Web Core and what they are working on.

While your views on current status of uniGUI are fully valid and understandable, I don't understand why you need to mention about a competitor here. First of all, comparing uniGUI to TMS Web Core is comparing apples to oranges. What makes uniGUI powerful is its server side integration with Delphi. It allows a seamless integration between Sencha Ext JS and Delphi. It will be a futile effort to try to explain what uniGUI is and what it can do, because all of you are already quite familiar with uniGUI.

On the other hand, client side only web frameworks such as TMS Web Core adopt a totally different approach. The pseudo Pascal language they use can mimic Delphi language, but the whole environment is far from being Delphi! Delphi is not only about Pascal language. Delphi is about Object Pascal, database integration, third party tools and data aware components. Can you tell me to what level TMS allows to integrate your app with databases? You have complained about issues with DBLookupCombo, but do you have something similar in TMS Web?

OK. I don't like to criticize other frameworks. I believe that all attempts to create 3rd party tools for Delphi are priceless and I wish success for all of them. However, TMS Web Core doesn't seem to belong to Delphi eco-system other than it's Pascal language. Someone can move away from Delphi Eco-system for several reasons. That happens all the time for various reasons, but many also decide to stay with Delphi for other uncountable reasons. For same reasons people  choose uniGUI over other tools.

 

Quote

Here's a brief description:

  1. No more need for a Delphi environment (cost saving of 1.500 euro a year)
  2. IDE integration created by the main developer of Embadero PHP
  3. Full integration with Visual studio code (free)
  4. IDE is free and runs on Windows, mac and even in the cloud without installing anything
  5. Live rendering of components in the visual designer like at runtime (web components)
  6. Live data from rest services at design time!
  7. No deployment costs
  8. No server sessions (scalability)
  9. Class helpers to integrate third party components (very easy)!
  10. High DPI aware
  11. Need to say more? I don't think so...
  12. They have more to come, including full stack from server to client separate from Delphi IDE an cross-platform

1) Maintaining Delphi licenses may cost you a few thousands annually. It can be pricey, I agree! As I told above, as soon as you decide to leave Delphi behind, there are many alternatives out there. TMS Web would be only one of them. Question here is that are you ready to loose all those benefits brought to you by Delphi and its eco-system? Maintaing Delphi can be expensive, but it can also save you from hiring more developers which can save you much more! It is not really about uniGUI, but about Delphi and its surrounding eco-system.

2) Good, but where is the original product named Delphi for PHP now? From what I know it is no longer around.

3) Free is not always free, especially when your time costs money $$$!

4) OK sounds good, but doesn't mean that you'll be more productive.

5) It's nice feature. Something that we also consider for the future.

6) It's a bit tricky. We were able to show data at design time since uniGUI 0.1 directly from a db table. However, when it comes to REST services, you need to create/configure one beforehand to be able to consume it in a designer. In my view, Delphi's data handling capabilities are still matchless.

7) If your app is so simple that you don't need a server, yes. Otherwise, you need to run a server for your database back-end and etc.

8) It is partly true for client side only sessions. But even for a minimal database work you need to extend your sessions to the server side. Which will complicate things even further. Your REST server will know nothing about your sessions. You must implement your server side session logic.

9) How about Delphi's existing 3rd party components? Such as reporting tools?

10) Already resolved in Ext JS.

11) Yes, you should also list the down sides.  I have not fully reviewed the product, but I can mention some points here:

  • You will not be able to use Delphi, its rich language, 3rd party libs and its powerful data aware components.
  • Your code will run in client's browser which means your business logic will be exposed to outside world.
  • What if your app is very big? I've seen uniGUI apps with hundreds of forms and data modules. How can such giant apps be loaded and run on client side?
  • Almost all business web apps rely on heavy data consumption and manipulation. In this case you need to develop your server side business logic separately in a different tool and integrate it with your client web app. Consider that you have too many data tables on your server side. For each table these tasks should be repeated. Needless to say how these tasks are easily done in Delphi. In uniGUI you develop one application. You don't need to care about server side separately.
  • Getting data from a REST server can be easy, but posting back, modifying specific rows, running complex queries can make your life harder than you can imagine.
  • If you need computing power in your app, you will be limited to client browser CPU power. Since it is not native code your code will never run as fast as native CPU code. Don't forget that your code is translated into java script. On the other hand, servers are equipped with plenty of CPU cores, computing power and gigabytes of RAM.
  • Since code runs in client browser. Your debugging and logging capabilities will be limited compared to server side code.
  • OK. I'm not an expert in Web Core or similar frameworks. I'm not here to discredit their product. I wish them success, as I'm sure many people will find this kind of web development useful. What I'm trying to say here is that Web Core or similar frameworks can not be a replacement for uniGUI because they are not in same category with uniGUI.
Quote

This is coming all from TMS software next year (first beta release target is end of the year)

A license of TMS software costs around 500$.. you save Delphi license....

You can save that money today by simply switching to ASP.NET.

Quote

Where is Unigui? Farshad, are you still around? Makes me think, really...

I am here, but you are correct that I was mainly silent on the forums. I'm sorry for this.

Quote

I don't care about Linux support within Delphi, this runs everywhere...

But "this" is not the "same" thing...

Quote

Want to see something, this is run on a mac:

The shown demo is a very very simple app. Not even an app. We need to see something more complicated, comparable to the simplest business web app that you can develop with uniGUI.

Let me state again, through 10 years of my uniGUI endeavor I have never said a single negative word about competitor frameworks. We are busy with our own tasks not other people's stuff! The only reason that I made above comparison was that you have mentioned it here.

Back to our own reality. We will be back to our full development speed soon. To compensate our deviation from roadmap I will extend all subscription dates for at least two months. I will further extend those dates if needed in the future.

If we have failed to address any urgent bug, long awaited issue or question please go here. We will analyze your request and if we find your request acceptable then it will go to top of our to do list.

Best regards,

Farshad

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Thanks Farshad for your return on d.bernaert's post, I was expecting feedback about rodmap 2019, because besides linux the new schedule is being a big necessity and this was making me worried.
I believe that today if I left unigui I would not go deeper into TMS Web Core because it is a little baby in the universe of unigui, I believe that more stable solutions is to go to php, html, js and etc, honestly I am pleased with my results with the unigui + html + js + jquery + websocket to meet some needs that I couldn't with unigui but that together became more powerful than I could imagine ...
We know how much you must be working on unigui and thank you for your attention.
Long live Unigui ....
Note: We need a light of how it is to run on Linux ... hugs

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Thank you Farshad, very well written and high lighted everything.

i have my full trust and faith in you and the wonderful team, the members and team members are the best, no other forum compares to this.

i am honored to be a part of this 

UniGui is simply the best, it will get stronger, nothing happens over night.

 

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5 hours ago, Farshad Mohajeri said:

Hi Dominique,

Thank you for your feedback. I value your input here and I will try to address your concerns below.

I understand your disappointment regarding our current development speed and release times. As I've always said, the development speed for uniGUI has never been constant. It can be quite fast at times or slow at other times. However, it is obvious that we have failed to keep up with the release dates announced in the latest roadmap. Again, roadmaps are not contracts. They're announced to let people know what is about to come in near future. There can be deviations from the roadmaps. We've succeeded to complete up to 80% of items in the 2019 roadmap. Without doubt the remaining 20% are very important items, including infinite grids, Linux and responsiveness support.

The "light releases" that you have mentioned above are being released for past two months, that is correct. However, it is not true for the whole 2019. Year 2019 as a whole, is/was a very productive year for uniGUI. In this year many bugs have been fixed and many new features have been added.

Please don't be disappointed simply because for our bad performance which can be counted only for past couple of months. A release interval of every three weeks seems to be OK from my point of view as long as each release addresses enough issues.

That said, this situation will not stay the same. We are committed to the 2019 roadmap. All of the announced features in the roadmap will be implemented unless we state otherwise or revise the roadmap. We don't have any intention to revise the current roadmap. That said, obviously the dates in the roadmap need to be revised and shifted for a few months.

 

While your views on current status of uniGUI are fully valid and understandable, I don't understand why you need to mention about a competitor here. First of all, comparing uniGUI to TMS Web Core is comparing apples to oranges. What makes uniGUI powerful is its server side integration with Delphi. It allows a seamless integration between Sencha Ext JS and Delphi. It will be a futile effort to try to explain what uniGUI is and what it can do, because all of you are already quite familiar with uniGUI.

On the other hand, client side only web frameworks such as TMS Web Core adopt a totally different approach. The pseudo Pascal language they use can mimic Delphi language, but the whole environment is far from being Delphi! Delphi is not only about Pascal language. Delphi is about Object Pascal, database integration, third party tools and data aware components. Can you tell me to what level TMS allows to integrate your app with databases? You have complained about issues with DBLookupCombo, but do you have something similar in TMS Web?

OK. I don't like to criticize other frameworks. I believe that all attempts to create 3rd party tools for Delphi are priceless and I wish success for all of them. However, TMS Web Core doesn't seem to belong to Delphi eco-system other than it's Pascal language. Someone can move away from Delphi Eco-system for several reasons. That happens all the time for various reasons, but many also decide to stay with Delphi for other uncountable reasons. For same reasons people  choose uniGUI over other tools.

 

1) Maintaining Delphi licenses may cost you a few thousands annually. It can be pricey, I agree! As I told above, as soon as you decide to leave Delphi behind, there are many alternatives out there. TMS Web would be only one of them. Question here is that are you ready to loose all those benefits brought to you by Delphi and its eco-system? Maintaing Delphi can be expensive, but it can also save you from hiring more developers which can save you much more! It is not really about uniGUI, but about Delphi and its surrounding eco-system.

2) Good, but where is the original product named Delphi for PHP now? From what I know it is no longer around.

3) Free is not always free, especially when your time costs money $$$!

4) OK sounds good, but doesn't mean that you'll be more productive.

5) It's nice feature. Something that we also consider for the future.

6) It's a bit tricky. We were able to show data at design time since uniGUI 0.1 directly from a db table. However, when it comes to REST services, you need to create/configure one beforehand to be able to consume it in a designer. In my view, Delphi's data handling capabilities are still matchless.

7) If your app is so simple that you don't need a server, yes. Otherwise, you need to run a server for your database back-end and etc.

8) It is partly true for client side only sessions. But even for a minimal database work you need to extend your sessions to the server side. Which will complicate things even further. Your REST server will know nothing about your sessions. You must implement your server side session logic.

9) How about Delphi's existing 3rd party components? Such as reporting tools?

10) Already resolved in Ext JS.

11) Yes, you should also list the down sides.  I have not fully reviewed the product, but I can mention some points here:

  • You will not be able to use Delphi, its rich language, 3rd party libs and its powerful data aware components.
  • Your code will run in client's browser which means your business logic will be exposed to outside world.
  • What if your app is very big? I've seen uniGUI apps with hundreds of forms and data modules. How can such giant apps be loaded and run on client side?
  • Almost all business web apps rely on heavy data consumption and manipulation. In this case you need to develop your server side business logic separately in a different tool and integrate it with your client web app. Consider that you have too many data tables on your server side. For each table these tasks should be repeated. Needless to say how these tasks are easily done in Delphi. In uniGUI you develop one application. You don't need to care about server side separately.
  • Getting data from a REST server can be easy, but posting back, modifying specific rows, running complex queries can make your life harder than you can imagine.
  • If you need computing power in your app, you will be limited to client browser CPU power. Since it is not native code your code will never run as fast as native CPU code. Don't forget that your code is translated into java script. On the other hand, servers are equipped with plenty of CPU cores, computing power and gigabytes of RAM.
  • Since code runs in client browser. Your debugging and logging capabilities will be limited compared to server side code.
  • OK. I'm not an expert in Web Core or similar frameworks. I'm not here to discredit their product. I wish them success, as I'm sure many people will find this kind of web development useful. What I'm trying to say here is that Web Core or similar frameworks can not be a replacement for uniGUI because they are not in same category with uniGUI.

You can save that money today by simply switching to ASP.NET.

I am here, but you are correct that I was mainly silent on the forums. I'm sorry for this.

But "this" is not the "same" thing...

The shown demo is a very very simple app. Not even an app. We need to see something more complicated, comparable to the simplest business web app that you can develop with uniGUI.

Let me state again, through 10 years of my uniGUI endeavor I have never said a single negative word about competitor frameworks. We are busy with our own tasks not other people's stuff! The only reason that I made above comparison was that you have mentioned it here.

Back to our own reality. We will be back to our full development speed soon. To compensate our deviation from roadmap I will extend all subscription dates for at least two months. I will further extend those dates if needed in the future.

If we have failed to address any urgent bug, long awaited issue or question please go here. We will analyze your request and if we find your request acceptable then it will go to top of our to do list.

Best regards,

Farshad

Farshad, you have my full support and trust.

Congratulations for your work.

Long coming to UniGUI.

Best regard,

Eduardo Belo

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Hi All,

I have read posts in this topic, and i share my experience and my thought;
I have license on Unigui and also on TMS web core (and many other library and components);
Goal of TMS web Core is "openess and cross-platform", due to only javascript generated code; it's still young and in constant evolution, now also work in Visual Studio Code;
Well, the question is: Why I must use it  if I need a "only javascript + HTML5"  approach to my applications? I have tested a lot of frameworks and, if I must "rewrite" my apps for the web without Delphi approach (I intend use of datasets, frames, etc...) and I need a separate REST data management  I change totally direction and go with Devextreme and pure javascript, due to  its UI power (or Infragistic, or Telerik, etc...), no more dependence from Delphi in UI and no more pascal; maybe the data server can be Delphi :-) 

The truth is that "the magic wand" is the visual IDE, creation wysiwyg of forms and manage of event and property at DESIGN TIME. Infact TMS Web core attract our attention ONLY because it have a visual editor, like the Delphi Edition. Without a visual editor, who use pascal code in Visual Studio code for generate javascript?
Ok, It is another solution if I want to approach the standard web: client code + separate remote data management, so stateless and client centric; but I need to worry about sessions, timeouts, and other not visible "variables" of the project, and I need to expose too into client browser. Moreover performance is not the best; With Unigui I take about 2 seconds at runtime for show a form with 300 fields (I develope tax applications, Farshad Known...), 10 seconds with TMS, due that creation object in javascript is not the same of Delphi, the same when you need complex calculation of use of fast complex functions. Sure they optimize it in the future, so I think it is a good product. I will look at evolution.
But we have also Unigui that follows Delphi way; visual forms, datasets, events, etc. ALL in ONE perfectly integrated. With a crazy productivity in time development ($$$).
Indeed, what we want (and what is missing) is that Unigui have all that we see on modern richfull libraries like Devextreme (for ex.),  on Client User Interface, no one dares to question on  its Delphi server logic that is PERFECT. This because our customers see only UI, but the real treasure is in the exe (or dll) that manage all,  and work worderfully with its session management.
So, if I can have DBGrids that have the same power and richness of great Devextreme, very powerful Listview, Lookups, Charts, etcc... without write a lot of javascript client code  (all Client features!!!) why I must change UNIGUI?
Why I need to change Unigui if all I need is at 95% in Unigui components property and events, with only 5% of my custom javascript client code? (I naturaly don't speek on Delphi server code)
Only for obtain a cross platform javascript product, with A LOT of extra work, I think;

But now I need powerful  Windows (based)  applications; maybe linux release give me freedom on server side for cost, when available; Mac (server)  is not a problem for me;

So I think that Unigui with Equinox full features completed is a powerful tool for my need, thanks the powerful updated components. We need a more attention to forum requests, more responsiveness on bug and primarily on help request about ExtJs interaction and simple client features that Delphi programmer don't known (I don't have experience in ExtJs, I study it gradually on need). Most of times the problem is that we are locked on stupid or little request, easily solvable by an expert on forum or (better)  with a new timely release (I am wating for a direct editing in a cell without press Enter, for ex.) but that prevent release of the entire project for months!!

So I hope only  more powerful components  and more attention to user requests, in short time. When all Equinox features are available I Intend to substitute also desktop application with all-in-one project. Because I think that Unigui is, at present, the best web tools for Delphi programmers. 
Good job to Farshad.


(Sorry for my very poor english :-)   )

       
       
 

 

  



 

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Hi

I am addressing this post to the MR.Farshad and to the entire UniGUI team.
I have read quite a long posts here I will try to keep brief.

Guys just don't pay attention to posts like this.There's no point.
Keep your track. I think it is right.

I have more than 25 years of experience. Mainly with Delphi and I can say that

UniGUI is the best thing that has happened for Delphi community since 10-15 years

And I'm ready to sign this statement with my both hands.

Have a nice day.

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